Wednesday, October 30, 2024

Nightmare Week meets Friday Week: The only thing to fear is fear himself; or Dude, that goalie was pissed about something


FREDDY VS. JASON

2003
Directed by Ronny Yu
Written by Damian Shannon and Mark Swift

Spoilers: severe


And now we come to the ultimate gimmick for a pair of franchises that, as they entered the 1990s, became nothing besides gimmicks: in 1991, Freddy Krueger died; in 1993 Jason Voorhees, who turned out to be a mind-controlling bug demon this whole time, joined him in hell; in 1994, Wes Craven tried to convince you Freddy was real; in 2455 (2002 our time), Jason went to outer space.  (None of these are very good movies, I find; some are very bad.  Yet it behooves me to mention that New Nightmare has, in latterdays, won itself a large constituency.)  As I likely alluded to in each of those reviews, and described as early as our discussion of 1988's (already gimmicky!) Friday the 13th Part VII: The New Blood, negotiations had been undertaken all the way back in 1987 to bring the two titans of 80s franchise horror together.  It failed then, because New Line Cinema had no immediate need for it, and it presumably couldn't have helped that Freddy vs. Jason... how to put this delicately... sounds stupid.  There were forces at New Line behind it, as each series entered their respective declinesprincipally Michael De Luca, who wasn't there to see it finally happenbut you get the impression that Robert Shaye, always a little ambivalent about New Line's identification with a child molesting ghost, was not championing it.

Still, by now, New Line actually owned Jason, so they needed to justify that purchase; yet every time they tried to bring Freddy or Jason back and revitalize interest, it backfired.  At last, they just started development, the hell with it, and then development took forever, with some $6 million pumped into screenplay after screenplay.  (Which turned out to be fine, because even after throwing that much money into a pit, Freddy vs. Jason still only cost $30 million, the most expensive of either series, but by this time barely "high-budget" even for a slasherScream 3 cost $40 million.)  I won't detail all the false starts, and maybe the final kick in the ass was when Sean Cunningham just up and made Jason X, the Jason-goes-to-space one, and if he intended that as an implicit threat"if we don't make Freddy vs. Jason already, I'll just keep making even-dumber Friday the 13th novelty movies until we do"it's as good an explanation as any.


So finally, in 2003, it arrived, with the umpteenth screenplay credited to Damian Shannon and Mark Swift, and directed by Ronny Yu, who represented a signal reversal of policy for both franchises, each of which had a long tradition of giving untested filmmakers their shot, early on to exceptional effect, more recently to franchise-breaking missteps.  Yu was a Hong Kong veteran with a deep filmography, and American horror experience, too, having made his stateside debut with Bride of Chucky.  He vindicated New Line's choice: Freddy vs. Jason was huge, depending on your source the highest-grossing of either franchise* at $116 million (yet for entirely unclear reasons, Yu only ever made two more movies in America or China).  To announce my own opinion, well, it's kewl, it's awesome, it's... there's no twist, I love it.  It's often denigrated (I mean, sure) but it's kind of amazing that it could exist in 2003 in the state it did, not a complete repudiation of contemporary trends in e-ticket horror, but damned near one, especially given where slashers were and what Freddy vs. Jason's own goals wereand it's more amazing still given that Yu was apparently hired for having serviced those contemporary trends with the campy, ironic Bride of Chucky, while Freddy vs. Jason is severe, even dangerousand it accomplishes this miracle alongside an even greater one, shaking off all the accumulated crapulence of the last fifteen years of both its sources.

If you only watched the first ten minutes, you'd question the hell out of these assertions, though the dangerousness would come through (one of the first images is Freddy licking a photograph of a little girl he just murdered).  But of course it remains a product of its time, amply demonstrated by the nu-metal on the soundtrack and the discouraging omnipresence of breast implants, or, in matters of (film) form, the whole ice-slick production, from the cinematography to the hair-and-makeup jobs.  It does have, especially upfront, the quality that it feels like all genre filmmaking in the 00s was aspiring to, that is, to make every single character intolerably repulsive, to the extent I spent the first proper scene hoping that the attendees of an impromptu house party hosted by Lori Campbell (Monica Keena) were all false protagonists doomed to die, beginning with the girls playing an annoying, implausible game of "marry, fuck, kill" regarding the Three Stooges and doing the most placeholdery un-comic dialogue imaginable upon that subject (they could've at least done Dracula, Frankenstein, and the Wolfman, and perhaps that was even the original idea and Yu said "no! no meta," but, gosh, you can have a bit, early on, in a movie called Freddy vs. Jason).  Then some boys arrive who are exponentially worse.  But they're not all immediately doomed; yet I didn't hate the movie.  Did I mention Lori lives at 1428 Elm Street?


So, obviously, I've skipped ahead.  We begin with Freddy (Robert Englund), trapped in limbo, narrating that his power comes from the terror he inflicts, and that while he has died, many times, he's now been forgotten, leaving him impotent and, worse, bored.  So he's searched hell for an instrument through which he could once again inspire fear, thereby sort of bootstrapping his way back into the collective unconscious.  He's found his catspaw: Jason (now Ken Kirzinger), once a drowned boy, but through his avenging love for his mother (Paula Shaw) reborn as a force of indiscriminate destruction, itself ultimately indestructible, who has likewise died many times, but returns to wreak carnage upon any who'd visit cursed Crystal Lake.  Freddy sees a way to interfere with that cycle, for Jason does love his mother, and, as we know, Freddy loves drag, and in the guise of Pamela Voorhees, he dispatches Jason to Springw... so, absolutely yes, the very worst thing in the movie is its lunatic insistence that Crystal Lake, NJ, and Springwood, OH, are practically neighboring towns.  Because what, did Jason take a bus?  But we must accept it, for descend upon Springwood Jason does; "naturally" (in self-referential franchise terms), Freddy sends him to 1428 Elm, and Jason annihilates the most dickish of Lori's guests (Jesse Hutch) in an interesting mixture of styles, impaling his victim with a machete but completing the look by finishing him, as Freddy might, with the bed itself.  Jason departs under "Pamela's" instructions, for Freddy's goal is to take the credit, and so the fear, and keep as many victims as possible for himself.

Lori and the others, notably semi-mean girl Kia (Kelly Rowland) and self-loathing alcoholic Gibb (Katharine Isabel), are definitely afraid, and they overhear some of the cops indiscreetly whisper the name: Freddy Krueger.  That's enough for Freddy to terrorize Lori in her dreams, but not enough to kill heryet.  Meanwhile, in the looney bin languishes Lori's old freshman year sweetheart, Will (Jason Ritter), imprisoned to silence his assertions that he witnessed Lori's psychiatrist dad (Tom Butler) murder her mom; by his side is Mark (Brendan Fletcher), institutionalized because he's had a brush with Freddy.  (It shouldn't come as a shock that, unbeknownst to them, they have that in common.)  Upon hearing the news, they break out to safeguard Lori, and the group eventually picks up nerd Linderman (Chris Maquette), stoner Bill (Jason Mewes, I mean Kyle Labine), and out-of-the-loop rookie cop Scott (Lochlyn Munro).  All along, Freddy's power is growing, but Jason's bloodlust is rising, and Freddy won't have it, given the whole point was to slake his own; and our heroes realize that they're facing two monsters, but maybe they can use one against the other.


This is remarkably decentexempting New Nightmare, it's the solidest foundation either franchise has had in ages.  The 00s douchebagginess is never entirely banished, but kept in check; the plot's messy, but flows well; and while the cast is variable, they're not wretched.  (Keena's performance gets better as it narrows to alternating between victimhood and bloody-minded heroism, rather than any attempt at personality; Ritter is his father's son and a worthwhile stock co-lead; Fletcher is almost destabilizingly good, as a kid who doesn't quite realize he's gone crazy because they kept telling him he was; everybody else is either deprived of opportunities or actively bad, but, usually, still in genre-affirming ways.)

But the story is good; for one thing, it's the first time any Nightmare, including Nightmare '84 itself, has attempted to honor Craven's original vision of Freddy as a god who only exists because you believe he does.  (They unfortunately stop honoring this two-thirds through, in favor of a Freddy's Dead gambit of pulling Freddy onto the material plane.  Happily, it's less annoying here, because this movie, after all, has one essential duty, enshrined in its very title, and I don't know how you get there otherwise, unless you had the downright elephantine gonads to short-circuit Jason's effects-heavy championship bout with the dreamlord by having Jason turn away, Nancy-style, and refuse to believe in his opponent.  For that matter, I think the clever-but-ramshackle set-up might've been smoothed out if Freddy approached Jason as a creature, like himself, of collective nightmare, rather than a literal corpse in a hockey mask; but hey, this isn't Sandman.)  What's earnestly fascinating, however, is how this conception of Freddy plays into things, all Springwood conspiring to eradicate its past as the only means of protecting its future, at the cost of its present.  Frankly, it's more nuanced yet also more coherent than Craven's attempt to shoehorn in his tangents about blackhearted suburbia: the adults are still condescending liars here, destroying their children slowly rather than Freddy's all-at-once, but they really did have good intentions, and it lets you make your own judgments.  It's an awfully smart, interesting way to engage with the continuity of an old and gnarled franchise by turning towards basically full-on speculative fiction, pondering how a world would work if people knew dream demons were real.


As the foregoing unmistakably suggests, Freddy vs. Jason is almost entirelyNightmare On Elm Street movie, that Jason has simply stumbled intofrom its structure (close-knit high schoolers discover Freddy quickly and wage a secret war for their survival; there's a Friday-style opening montage that's, nonetheless, devoted to Nightmare movies), to its geography (only the ending's at Crystal Lake), to its villainous hierarchy ("line count" obviously isn't useful, but Jason never threatens to be the principal antagonist)and that's fair, given that Nightmare movies have actual plots and Freddy's an actual character.

I do like the way Jason's used here, though: as a bludgeon, kind of dumb but not nearly as dumb as Freddy thinks he is, and eventually our antihero, by the simple calculation that while Jason's a murderous zombie, Freddy's an evil god.  I'm going to speak some heresy by forwarding Kirzinger as perhaps my favorite Jason: Kane Hodder had been thanked for his service and dismissed by Yu, who preferred Kirzinger's more automaton-like lumbering perseverance, and, for these purposes, I prefer that too (homage is offered to Hodder, though they edit the heck out of Kirzinger's conceptually-even-cooler flamesuit sequence).  This is not to mention his sheer hulking enormity, akin to Tyler Mane's Michael Myers, but what's best about that is how it interfaces with Englund, who, by comparison, is a twerp, so that when their first battle occurs, Freddy's overdetermined victory only underlines his supernatural horror and the superiority of mind over matter, while the climactic second battle, with Freddy forced into physical combat, shifts rather seamlessly between the borderline atavism of a dog struggling with a bear, to a cartoon-logic thinker striving at a pronounced disadvantage against the inconveniences of real settings with (somewhat) real physics, as well as an opponent who is, still, basically a bear, to just two exhausted bladed-weapons combatants continuing trying to murder one another despite each one possessing a pronounced measure of immortality.  It's superb, gory action figure spectacledishonorable, maybe, but goodand benefiting (not even distractingly) from Yu's wuxia background, it delivers on what you came to see, especially that superlative final frame.


But then, it's a superlative final frame because of Englund, and while I'm going to circle around it for a moment, it's his best performance in the role.  If Freddy vs. Jason lets down the Nightmares' legacy, it's nothing to do with him.  It's on one front alone that it falters, though it is a big one: I don't know whose decision it was, but Freddy vs. Jason, though twelve years removed from the last "real" Freddy outing, is still afraid of its own shadow and embarrassed by the series' increasingly-misjudged nightmare setpieces. Thus we have a Nightmarea spectacle-oriented Nightmare still wallowing in its own plebeian tastethat, despite it all, opts for restraint, and only barely engages whatever skills its production designer, John Willett, might've otherwise brought to bear on it, mostly with a dreamscape Crystal Lake.  It's more varied than the straitjacketed New Nightmare, but the apex surrealism might be a wave effect through some hardwood floors at 1428 Elm that knocks Lori down.

Baroque elaboration is off the table, then (nobody's turning into a cockroach in this one), and Freddy and Jason's first fight happens in a facility resembling, yes, a boiler room, that's also where he already tormented Gibb.  Maybe it was budget, and if we Dream Mastered this, it'd be $60 million.  Mark's confrontation with his suicided brother at least indicates some skill at squirmy psychohorror in Yu; but then, there's a beat where stoner Bill is waylaid by a CGI'd, Freddified version of Lewis Carroll's caterpillar that begs for a fuller, goofier treatment, but there's no wonderland.  (Of course, it could be for the best: the movie is slightly too indebted to its 2003-era CGI.)  Yu is stylish about it, at leastit's generally dynamically-directed and well-staged no matter what, and indulging in a lot of totalizing colors within (and even without) the dream sequences, while the baseline "reality" remains some appreciably heightened stuff, so if I made it sound like 00s slickness was bad, cinematographer Fred Murphy is doing admirable work within that niche, with blue-tinted, brightly-spotlit nights that never come off as overlit, and some unusually effective uses of Gothicky "lightning," even in the middle of a house.  But whatever the hell Yu's doing with those horrible random swerves into step-printed slow-mo, "Hong Kong" only begins to explain it.


But it matters much less than it should, when Englund's spectacle all by himself.  So: maybe Nightmare '84's was the Freddy that was most unexpectedly malign and personal; Freddy's Revenge's the most willing to savor dominion over body and soul; Dream Warriors' the most startlingly self-amused and foul; Dream Master's the most darkly whimsical and godlike; Dream Child's the dumbest and loudest-mouthed; Freddy's Dead's the most comically exasperated; New Nightmare's the most incomprehensibly inhuman.  But this is Englund striking an ideal balance between all of his Freddies, the favored and the disfavored alike, bolstered by the series' best makeup, and supported by what could only have been a rigorously curated script that still feels like it's letting Englund off the leash rather than strangling him with notes.

Freddy is fucking mean in this one: he's still doing puns, and still ending so many sentences with "bitch," but with a chilly rage underlying it, like he wants to give himself a good laugh, but he's been too angry too long to fully enjoy himself, and he's taking that compounded anger out on you.  Jesus, he's slightly racist in this one, as a grace note and added edge to an already hyper-aggressive conception of Freddy's villainy that's amping his explicitly sexual menace to the highest degree in the entire franchisefor instance (not even the most harrowing instance), one of the semi-serious weaknesses of the script gets turned on its head when we think they're launching into yet another discussion of plot information we already know, but it's always been a Freddy-induced nightmare, revolving around Lori's "virgin sacrifice," that, likewise, involves her dad.  It's not for everyone, clearly, but it leans as fully as possible into Freddy as a cosmic rapist, which, if we're clear-eyed, has been the center of all his horror since Tina back when.  Even his cruelty to Jasonwho is in some ways a vulnerable child himself, after allfeels correct in its gratuity.  And Englund gives it bleak power, plumbing the darkness that Craven had seen in him two decades earlier, but harder, deeper, and in greater quantities than ever before.


Freddy vs. Jason
 is the capstone to two franchisesgiven its financial success, I can't imagine by what forbearance New Line did so, but having brought their franchises to satisfying conclusions for once, they let its finality standand, honestly, I think it does right by Jason Voorhees, too, dredging from the lakebottom sludge of his mind a more cohesive originating tragedy than ever before (even if it is a caricatured Freddy nightmare), and giving him some onscreen time with something that at least purports to be his mother, and, of course, letting him win.  But you know, the Fridays, in their deceptive flexibility, would be the easier of the two series to "do right by."  So it's the way that this movie affords Robert Englund such a glorious showcase, and Freddy Krueger such a flawless sendoffundignified in the most glitteringly perfect of ways, coming complete with possibly the cheesiest fourth-wall breaking wink in film history, its significance as a promise that this story will never end magnified by the knowledge that this was, nevertheless, Englund's last wordthat actually turns the gimmick into something more, something I knew I needed, but by this point never expected I'd get.

Score: 8/10

*However, in inflation-adjusted dollars, Friday '80 beats it handily ($225 million to $198 million), and it's wild to remember just how successful the original Friday the 13th was.

Reviews in this series:
Friday the 13th (Cunningham, 1980)
Friday the 13th Part 2 (Miner, 1981)
Jason Goes To Hell: The Final Friday (Marcus and Cunningham, 1993)
Jason X (Isaac, 2002)
Freddy vs. Jason (Yu, 2003)
Friday the 13th (Nispel, 2009)

14 comments:

  1. We mentioned before about not having had the web to properly archive the immediate reactions to the earlier films, but this is one instance where we *did* have the internet and looking back I think you could actually get the wrong impression from it. The movie was a smash, loved by most audiences, and even got relatively decent reviews considering the pedigree, but most of the blogs seemed to be real blase on it for some reason (the contemporary AlternateEnding review is disappointingly pedantic, for instance), and movie forums were filled with idiots who made INFURIATINGLY bullshit claims that the movie's resolution was "too vague" and that "there wasn't a clear winner" (I hope such people eventually realized that this whole "watching movies" thing wasn't really for them). The various cynical reactions like this seemed to get over-represented online (this is probably the kind of movie whose accolades would've been better picked up on modern social media platforms).

    You've given this movie the review it's always deserved. For whatever it's worth, you have my thanks. Somehow, even though they ostensibly only claim have half a movie each here, 'Freddy Vs. Jason' is more about Freddy and Jason than any of their own standalone films. Still the greatest of all crossovers.

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    1. Thanks!

      "Still the greatest of all crossovers."

      You know, this might be true? I'm loath to count basically-metafictional things like Who Framed Roger Rabbit (or, going the other way, Ready Player One), and I outright reject something where the characters have always explicitly occupied the same continuity and "the crossover" was the point, like The Avengers. Which means the major competition is, like AVP, and definitely yes. (Though I like the first AVP alright.) I'd probably count Spider-Man: No Way Home as a "real" crossover but, lord, this is way better.

      So there were people who didn't perceive a clear winner? One of them is holding the other's severed head! That's as clear-cut as it gets who "won." Did anyone who watched Friday '80 fail to have a clear idea of who won Pamela vs. Alice? Gee whiz.

      I don't hold Tim Brayton to anything he said that far back (I don't want to be held to anything I said half as far back!), but I do think his original evaluations get stuck to what his 20-something self thought was proper, even though he VERY OBVIOUSLY actually likes more than a few of these, no matter whether he says he doesn't when he watches them for the fourth time.

      "Somehow, even though they ostensibly only claim have half a movie each here, 'Freddy Vs. Jason' is more about Freddy and Jason than any of their own standalone films."

      This is a great observation. It's kind of astounding how little I could refute it even if I wanted to.

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    2. (Re: "Vague ending") From what I remember these folks claimed they took Freddy's wink as a sign that he's got some trick up his sleeve or is otherwise still in the fight and thus the movie ends before their battle is actually over. Honestly I think a lot of them were actually Freddy fans who were disappointed that Freddy didn't "win" and were simultaneously holding on to the fig leaf of the wink so they could complain about the result without just sounding like they were butthurt over "losing." The "Never Sleep Again" documentary actually has the filmmakers themselves proclaim the victor was up for debate and I think they were likewise trying to put on a nice face for the Nightmare on Elm Street documentary, heh.

      (Re: Other crossovers) There's 'Star Trek Generations,' which I quite liked, including the Kirk & Picard scenes, but of course there's only, like, two of them, so... There's also 'Frankenstein Meets the Wolf Man' and the various 'Abbott and Costello Meet {Universal monster}' flicks which I haven't seen, ditto for the OG 'King Kong Vs. Godzilla.' Still, I have a feeling 'Freddy Vs. Jason' is comfortable on its throne. I remember coming out of that theater feeling... "touched" might be too strong a word, but I was definitely amazed that the crossover actually felt meaningful (on any level!) and not at all gratuitous.

      Googling more crossover films, I'm seeing there was a 'Lake Placid Vs. Anaconda' (!) in 2015 Starring Robert Englund (!!). I'm also reminded of 'The Flinstones Meet the Jetsons' video which I saw at a friend's house as a kid, which I definitely remember delivering on the "wow they are on the screen at the same time" novelty at the very least (I also recall getting a kick out of the Jetsons finding a time machine and how they all got excited at the prospect of being able to visit the future!).

      OH! And there was the Japanese 'The Ring Vs. The Grudge' which was fun and felt like it took some inspiration from 'Freddy Vs. Jason,' though I don't know whether I love or hate that the two ghosts actually physically *fight* with, like, their hands and shit (also I think they used their hair like whips or something). Also I found its very end to be really, REALLY stupid, and not in a good way.

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    3. See, I'd have to say Generations would fall under the Avengers category anyway: TOS and TNG unequivocally existed in the same continuity, sufficient to have previous meetings between the characters (and some in DS9 to boot, at least with some of the Klingons). I mean, it's a crossover but not a "how did you even manage it?" crossover. They managed it because Star Trek is Star Trek! It's also very arguable they didn't manage it and I dunno if Generations would be much of a contender anyway.

      One of these days I'm gonna have to watch the Anacondas and Lake Placids.

      I have heard tell of The Ring vs. the Grudge, and you don't make it sound less baffling of concept. One of the reasons Freddy vs. Jason works is that they are so much differing kinds of horror. (As noted numerous times, the Nightmares are barely slashers.) Like, I've mentioned this to somebody else, but I don't think Michael vs. Jason would be as interesting. Though it would make more sense than "this one curse-based ghost vs. this other curse-based ghost." How does a ghost curse another ghost? Unclear!

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    4. Oh, and as for the winner, it seems foreordained as soon as Freddy is made the big bad, which I don't see how you'd avoid. I guess he could win and kill every child in Springwood and it's actually a prequel to (it was in the future, after all!) Freddy's Dead, but do we... do we want that?

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    5. And (last thing) it is of course also right that Freddy would be beaten by the slasher villain that's been frequently characterized something akin to a (giant, hyperviolent) child.

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    6. - (Re: The RinGrudge) I recall of the plot that someone gets cursed by the tape, and someone they know suggests that getting a *second* curse will cancel the two out, and whadyaknow there just so happens to be an infamous haunted house over there with a ghost who holds grudges, and then hijinks ensue.

      - (Re: Michael Vs. Jason) I am now legally obligated to mention the 'HELLOWEEN: Myers Vs. Pinhead' project proposed in the wake of FvJ's success, to have been written by Clive Barker and directed by John Carpenter (apparently the gurus at Dimension figured out they could interest both simply by telling each of them the other was already signed on and was a HUGE admirer, etc...) and was pretty much ready to go and the ONLY reason it didn't get the green light was because of a last-second personal intervention by Moustapha Akkad himself. (Carpenter would later claim he was drunk when he agreed to do it). The possibilities!

      - (Re: Child killer Freddy meets comeuppance by murderous manchild Jason) YES! That was one of the things that amazed me after my first watch. Against all odds these guys figured out PRECISELY where these two independently-made stories naturally intersected, attached them there, and then nailed them together with a damn sledgehammer. The result feels so obvious in hindsight, like these two were always secretly on a collision course to this inevitable conclusion from the very beginning.

      I keep trying to find a way to describe what it was like to watch this for the first time in 2003 without sounding too corny, but it was honestly kind of humbling, like receiving a gift whose generosity goes above and beyond all expectations. Like, they didn't HAVE to do this. Nobody would have ever blamed them for *just* making a fun, meaningless hackfest. We didn't need or demand a movie that illuminated "the truth" of Freddy and Jason and had, like, themes and morals(!!) and shit. But by god, they did it. The bastards really did it!

      - (Re: perceiving a winner beforehand) I went the entire initial viewing under the expectation they'd find some bullshit way to make it a "tie," despite having read a fanboy advance review on Ain't It Cool News that there actually was a winner at the end. I was thinking something along the lines of, Freddy's the villain so he gets his plans foiled or whatever, but kind of gets the last laugh by activating a bomb or magic macguffin or some shit that explodes and takes them both out. Needless to say I was stunned by the boldness of Jason's "victory lap" holding Freddy's head as a trophy, and then Freddy's scene-stealing wink being the perfect consolation prize. Well-played, good sirs, well-played.

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    7. Halloween and Hellraiser is... I would be curious, I guess. Laurie Strode gets really into kink?

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    8. I have no idea how the Barker/Carpenter (Barkenter?) collabo would've shaken out, but there had already been a couple spec scripts proposed even beforehand, and one of them had the actually-kind-of-brilliant idea of having it piggy-back on the Thorne-cult timeline (an alternate branch as Jamie Lloyd was the protagonist). I don't know if running concurrent timelines was something people were ready for circa 2001 or whenever this was , but it does make a lot of sense to attach the wild BDSM hell-demon crossover to the version of Halloween that had already made gestures to the supernatural, and you get to go in knowing the movie is "contained" in another continuity (while also avoiding the gratuitous feeling of "this is just a one-off that doesn't actually happen at all and will be of no consequence"), and it'd actually be sort of neat for a series to make some use out of those seemingly "discarded" entries like that. But who knows, maybe it's for the best.

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  2. I'd planned on adding more thoughts after a rewatch (it's been a few years), and I didn't get around to it until now. So some belated Freddy Vs. Jason musings!

    - You're correct how this is more "A Nightmare on Elm Street with Special Guest Jason" due to the setting and Freddy driving the plot, etc. But I noticed this time the caveat that the cast by and large consists of Friday the 13th characters: to keep it short, they're depicted as annoying at best and outright terrible at worst. The boyfriend and fellow asylum escapee are the designated "Elm Street characters" marked by being proactive and having a past that concerns Freddy Krueger (and I swear to god Jason Ritter was specifically instructed to "act like 80s Johnny Depp"). Now the most amusing part is that Monica Keena's character arc is her transformation from a defensive Friday the 13th "final girl" to a proactive and vengeful Nightmare on Elm Street "heroine" (fittingly, the turning point is her learning that she has a past with Freddy Krueger).

    - The above gets kinda spooky when you notice Jason ends up killing exclusively the Friday the 13th characters and Freddy only kills the Nightmare on Elm Street characters (and subsequently the reason Freddy only has a single kill in the whole movie - arguably the most shocking thing about it!)

    - And related to the above it's actually quite apparent that Jason is very specifically targeting "bad people" much more than any other movie he's been in. It's not so much just "sex and/or drugs" this time around, the people he kills pretty much boil down to bullies, jerks, and those that get in his way. The girl who gets taken advantage of at the rave looks like an accident/collateral damage (at the least it's apparent the would-be rapist is the one he's targeting), and even the corn field massacre consists entirely of the dudes who harassed the geeky kid and guys running up to Jason to attack him. The dad whose head pops off might be the biggest stretch here, but we don't actually see what all happened beforehand, and from what we've seen he's not exactly the most caring father, either. Basically they worked the "Jason is at heart an innocent and not inherently evil" angle even harder here than I'd realized.

    - You can feel a bizarre series of calculations behind having Kelly Rowland's character call Freddy a "faggot" (and I feel like this is a weirdly unique moment in movie history in having one of the "good guys" use a slur this pointedly - there's this brief pause right after she says it like the movie knows it just dropped a bomb, and say what you will about Rowland's acting but she didn't have a habit of Shatner pauses). There's a feeling they're hoping she gets somewhat excused because of Freddy's "dark meat" crack at her and that she's simply responding in kind (except, you know, Freddy isn't gay?! (insert "Freddy's Revenge" joke here)), and there's also an attempt to make it clear she's putting on an act to distract him and that she's specifically referring to him being a "sissy" (though people who'd actually use the slur sincerely don't really perceive much of a difference). And THEN it becomes apparent that this is the reason Jason kills her (like I mentioned, she's acting like a bully). I don't know if they achieved whatever they were after here, but it's such a peculiar moment I think I'm more glad to have it there than not.

    (I've got more to say but I gotta run! I'll be back)

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    1. The Rowland Slur part is one of the odder parts of the movie, though I never put much more thought into it than "is the 00s, is R-rated insult that gestures in an all-purpose and not very specifically at sexual deviancy or effeminancy" (and Freddy is, at turns, of effeminate; but we could compare it to Predators' colorful climactic homophobia with Walton Goggins, which stands a better chance at shock comedy because it's so idiotic, but I don't think either was really thoroughly thought-through in terms of themes or even meaning beyond "extremely startling language"). And I'm not wholly convinced they wanted Jason to only kill with justification--if so, it seems very un-Jason, even under disproportionate-punishment slasher rules, at least 50% of the Fridays' master kill list is made up righteous dudes and dudettes--though I wouldn't say you don't have some evidence.

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    2. I'm back! I know you've been waiting on pins and needles.

      - I wouldn't have bought the "Jason is mostly targeting bullies" thing myself if I'd heard someone bring it up... but I do think it's a genuine motif after my most recent watch. I think they covered their bases in that Mrs. Voorhees-Krueger has given Jason a bit more specific instruction to punish the "naughty" kids of Elm Street, (and even after Freddy's ruse is revealed, Jason still goes through a mass dream-bullying and Freddy himself is like King Bully, so for the moment he's still in a "kill the bullies" mood) so I don't believe this it's meant to retroactively color his MO in previous films - they just really needed this serial killer to be plausible enough as the movie's anti-hero by the end.

      - I first saw this opening weekend in a theater in a majority-black neighborhood in Nashville, and the "dark meat" comment was taken in stride (some "ooohs" and giggles), and when Rowland drops "faggot" I think there might've been one "oh" and a couple seconds of silence from a fairly rowdy crowd. I guarantee you most of the audience had said or thought far worse themselves beforehand, but they weren't quite sure how to react to that. It quickly perked back up when Rowland starts going into Freddy's "butter knives" and how Jason's got this "big ol' thing," but for a couple seconds there was a palpable feeling that the movie was getting a little *dangerous* there in that way you describe, and while it was awkward, it was also a little exhilarating. And hell, if it got some people to start thinking about some things, all the better.

      The credited writers insist they didn't write those lines, and that their script had her telling Jason that she takes back up all the energy she gave him and that he's nothing to her, only for Freddy to pipe up behind her "wrong one, bitch!" and her promptly get the axe (er, machete). That's a much more clever and amusing setup that I would definitely have preferred if I hadn't been in that particular screening on that particular night... but I was, so I'm not totally sure if I'd want to make that trade.

      - (From that same screening, I'll always remember the one fat guy who brought his kids with him commenting early on that "Jason got a chrome dome" and my girlfriend at the time desperately trying to suppress her laughter at that).

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  3. (Last one)
    - This I think is just sort of an accident, but I feel like the first half or so of the movie plays "shlockier" than the second, and I think it's mostly that the sets sort of look cheaper (very overly-clean, like an Ikea showroom or something) and most of the performances are at their worst. But about halfway through (it starts pretty much precisely when Monica Keena confronts her father about his lies) the movie slowly starts feeling more... "serious" would be going too far (it stays really goofy throughout) but more genuine/ legit. I think it's the lighting and the nighttime and weather setting that helps hide some of the more cheap sets and effects, and the acting shifts from having to deliver nuanced lines to more general melodrama which favors this cast. So it kinda sneaks up on you when at the end it hits "holy shit this was actually, like, meaningful?" and it feels all the more impressive. At least for me, anyway!

    - Honestly the single least effective thing in the entire series of A Nightmare on Elm Street is the whole 1428 house thing. I have never actually been able to retain what the significance of the house is aside from it being the setting of the first (was it Freddy's old house or something?) and probably even worse, not once in the whole series have I ever actually felt like it was the same house. Luckily it's so inconsequential that it's never really hurt the movies, but it's weird how often they go to that well and it's just never done ANYTHING for me.

    - The new Mrs. Voorhees (googling it, the actress's name is Pamela Shaw) probably doesn't get enough props for her portrayal. She doesn't much look like Betsy Palmer (she actually comes off a bit more "on this side of elderly" when Mrs. Voorhees was like smackdab "middle age") but her performance evokes enough of the same energy I knew pretty much instantly who she was supposed to be. After a while she starts sounding a lot like Rita Repulsa from Power Rangers, but by then I think that's more Freddy getting carried away with the act, haha.

    - If you're familiar with the music from Batman Returns, the moment at the end when Jason sinks into the lake and Monica Keena tosses him back his machete (not a terribly smart move, imo, but ok) was VERY obviously temp-scored with the Penguin's theme music from that movie. Considering the context, it may well have been from the scene where he receives a "penguin funeral" and his body committed to the sewer water!

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    1. Apropos of little, but I'm really glad you mentioned Batman Returns. It's Christmastime!

      The 1428 Elm thing is... I have no idea, I almost mentioned it in the review that this is the one that gets closest to making it comprehensible why it has ANY significance to Freddy, and I suppose it's fair enough that he simply really hates Nancy Thompson specifically, even if, as I always say, 1)he already killed her in the first film with only minor trouble, damnit (but no matter what, he definitely killed her in the third) and 2)Alice was his actual archenemy, and she obviously lived pretty far down the road. When I was watching Freddy's Dead, I meant to determine if Talalay and De Luca were trying to imply that 1428 Elm was Freddy's house, but I forgot. I don't think so. It would make the backstory even messier. "Sure, we lynched him, but that was because of the child murders, so why should we have left money on the table? Of course we bought his destitute widow's house at $20,000 under market value."

      Cosigned on Shaw and the acting improving throughout the film.

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